This was a private video interview with Master Chung, Kee Tae
By Master Mike Wollmershauser
On June 19, 1998, Master Chung, Kee Tae was inducted into the Hap Ki Do Hall of Fame. A ceremony was held at the American Hap Ki Do Association Hall of Fame Banquet. Also present was 9th Degree Grandmaster (Lim)Im, Hyun Soo, Chairman of the Jung Ki Hap Ki Do Organization in Daegu City, Korea. Other Korean Masters and Doctors were present for the ceremony with over 300 Hap Ki Do Black Belts and Masters attending. Master Chung, Kee Tae was honored "as a man who has brought forth to Canada the Art of Hap Ki Do, who has greatly contributed to the Introduction of Hap Ki Do as an Art of Self Defense into Tae Kwon Do." Master Chung, Kee Tae is the President of the Canadian Hap Ki Do Association registered through the Canadian Government . He has also written books on Hap Ki Do and taught numerous law enforcement agencies. Accepting this award on his behalf was Master David Murray because Master Chung, Kee Tae has been on kidney dialysis for the past few years and it was quite difficult for him to join us on this special occasion...
Mike Wollmershauser is President of the American Hap Ki Do Association since 1981 and Chairman of the Hap Ki Do Hall of Fame with locations in the United States and Daegu City, Korea, the Home of Hap Ki Do. He has been in Hap Ki Do since 1970. He has contributed his skills to a little better understanding of the past , the present, and hopefully the future in the true family of the art of Hap Ki Do. The Late Grand Master Yong Sul Choi informed Master Mike of his direction for the future of Hap Ki Do and of his hopes for Grand Master Chinil Chang taking over as the Doju and only head of Hap Ki Do this he felt best for the art in 1979 when he paid a visit to Korea. In 1985 it was official that the system of Hap Ki Do was handed over to Grand Master Chinil Chang, the Doju and only 10th Degree Black Belt ever promoted by Grandmaster Yong Sul Choi.
CKT: I was born in Daegu City, Korea. Chin Sang Dong.
Wollmershauser: When were you born?
CKT: July 25, 1939.
Wollmershauser: You had been promoted by Choi, Yong Sul, to what rank?
CKT: 6th dan.
Wollmershauser: 6th dan. So by paper from him you are 6th dan?
CKT: Yes.
Wollmershauser: You moved from Daegu City, Korea to Canada?
CKT: Yes, I came to Canada and started the Canadian Hap Ki Do Association to help Canadian people to have a home, an organization in the art of Hap Ki Do. I did this so they could have better Hap Ki Do, and for them to be teaching it in the future.
Wollmershauser: Okay, that has happened. Now what I’d like to do is to go back in time. Had you studied other martial arts? What other martial arts did you study?
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CKT: I had first studied Tae Soo Do. Before Tas Soo Do I studied Yu Sul.
Wollmershauser: What does Tae Soo Do mean?
CKT: Tae Soo To means "foot-hand art".
Wollmershauser: Something like Tae Kwon Do.
CKT: Then many, many years after it was changed and became one of the arts called Tae Kwon Do.
Wollmershauser: You mentioned something about Yu Sul? Was that something like Judo (Yudo)?
CKT: Yes, Yu Sul Kwan, Yu means some throwing techniques. You went from Yu Sul Kwan, then to Hap Ki Do.
Wollmershauser: Have you ever heard Hap Ki Do called Yawara?
CKT: Oh yes! It was First called Yawara...it’s been called many names after...But first it was called Yawara by Choi, Yong Sul, then shortly after Kido, then later on Hap Ki Do. Choi said "Some to Christian people Kido means prayer, this name Kido was not a very good for name for martial art." Then Grandmaster Choi chose the name Hap Ki Do for his art.
Wollmershauser: What year did they start using the name Hap Ki Do?
CKT: I think....1959 or late 1958.
Wollmershauser: When you studied Yu Sul...Who was your teacher?
CKT: It was Master Kim, Moo Oong, my first instructor. Yawara I remember was the first time, then Yul Kwan Sul..and then we tried forming organization for Kido but then Choi, Yong Sul came back with Hap Ki Do and he kept Hap Ki Do from then on. Most people wanted Kido Association and we had first big meeting in Seoul City. Only one time we had meeting in Seoul. It was at Master Shin, Moo Kwan’s school that we had our first meeting, then came Jung, Moo Ee, Master Ga, Master Kee Moo Hoo...his club, then everyone’s Hap Ki Do black belts met together, even people from Pusan City and several other area schools came to this meeting.
Wollmershauser: Was Master Shin, Moo Kwan with Choi, Yong Sul or Ji, Han Jae at the time of this meeting?
CKT: No, no, no. This meeting was called by Choi, Yong Sul, not Ji, Han Jae, it was Kee Moo Hoo, this person together with Choi, Yong Sul.
Wollmershauser: In Seoul City. Let me go back again to a question I have asked before. Your teacher in Yu Sul, what was his name?
CKT: His name was Kang, Moon Jung he came to my school and first instructed me in Yu Sul, later called Hapkido.
Wollmershauser: You studied a very long time ago.
CKT: Yes it was a very long time ago...1956 or 57? The first was Master Kang, Moon Jung, he was teaching Yu Sul..
Wollmershauser: Did he study with Choi before? Is he in any of theses pictures? I know of one of the people was named Kang. (Wollmershauser shows picture to Chung, Kee Tae) Is he one of them?
CKT: (Studies the pictures) I don’t know. It was long time ago...almost 40 years...Kang I remember he visited the club I was at. There were almost 15 or 18 students and I was assistant teaching Tae Kwon Do. He visited the club and he started teaching Yu Sul. This was before it was called Hap Ki Do.
Wollmershauser: Is that the first time you saw this art and you liked it?
CKT: Oh yes, very much. I thought it was so impressive. I wanted to learn more and know about this mystery man. I was only a teenager then. Kang, was telling of one instructor in Daegu City, Korea, The name he said I did not know, He said there would be a very unusual technique applied. Someone grabbing and he was finished. I wanted to locate this man to teach me. I was very interested in learning. 2
Everyone tried to locate him. No one knew and people didn’t remember where exactly he was. There was a rumor of one finger touch then his enemy or opponent would be finished. I think one finger touch, then he’s finish! I wanted to learn. I really wanted to learn now. Someone said he knew something about this instructor’s location and asked "you want to buy lunch." I said I would buy lunch.
Wollmershauser: A bargain. You bought your friend lunch.
CKT: Yes. Then we went to that part of the city and the street name I don’t remember, I was with Kang, Moon Jung together we approached the club door, I heard noise inside and I began trying to see what was happening inside because the door had a little opening , Then I heard a scream AHHH with pain. This made me very nervous because of the reputation of one finger touch and finish. We were trying to watch closer, then someone big in there screamed again AHHHH even more louder! We quickly ran out of the building.
Wollmershauser: How old were you?
CKT: I think we were about sixteen years old. I ran away because I was very nervous. Then we went back a second time I really wanted to watch. I saw one guy grab the masters dobok top and the master came around on this side (CKT demonstrates brings his elbow over the arm twisting hand) and the person goes to the ground sits down making a loud noise then can’t stand up. I was nervous and ran away again. I went home and I kept dreaming about how I could learn the one finger, touch, and finish and was very interested in it.
Wollmershauser: Now, were you already a black belt?
CKT: I was black belt in Tae Kwon Do...sixteen, seventeen... Then someone said this club had not many people in it. I began studying and I found the more I learned the more I wanted to learn more. Such very high techniques. Far superior than anything I had seen in self defense before. Yet, point touch and one finger finish was still on my mind. Only one by one the Master taught, very special lessons. His name was Grandmaster Choi, Yong Sul, and he was in his early fifties at this time I believe..
Wollmershauser: Almost like a private lesson?
CKT: Yes and very expensive too. He taught with only one student inside curtain so no one else could see, then the second person would get ready and they would come in. Now remember I learned Tae Kwon Do and Yudo before coming to this Yawara Club. One month to learn Hap Ki Do the fee was 5 or 10 times higher that other arts One time use on somebody, then for a couple months they cannot use their arm I am nervous then. At Choi Yong Sul’s dojang, he had small ball hanging from the ceiling about head height and one person would be kicking the ball. They did many other kicks but for now just front kick, snap like ax kick, first time I had seen this kick because other kicking art only had roundhouse, and side kick mostly.
MJW: What year was this?
CKT: 1956. The person kicking was about twenty-three or twenty-four years old. Very unusual kicks I was seeing. Very interesting, one grab and pain, pressure point here, pressure point there, cannot use hand. Not like Tae Kwon Do kicking and punching. One problem there the assistant instructor, Master, one time do techniques and a couple of weeks you cannot work. Too much pain. The Master taught me, and I taught my students and test the techniques. Then at this point I started having my students learn both Hap Ki Do and Tae Kwon Do and they were learning grabbing techniques from the wrist, the side, the shoulder, from behind and chest attacks.
MW: Was Suh Bok Sup at the dojang at this time?
CKT: While I was there I heard Suh Bok Sup’s name, I never saw him in Daegu Hap Ki Do Dojang. But I later met him on several occasions but never very long. 3
MW: You studied Hap Ki Do until you had to go into the military service. When did you go into the army?
CKT: In 1959 I went to the army.
MW: How many years did you have to be in the army.
CKT: Three years. Till 1962.
MW: Did you teach Hap Ki Do in the army?
CKT: I taught Tae Kwon Do and a little Hap Ki Do.
MW: What military base did you teach at in Korea?
CKT: 8th Army Division. Base Oul Jee Ro, located in Seoul. Then later Hum Chung.
MW: After you finished the military service where did you return to?
CKT: I moved to Seoul City, Jung Am Dong and I opened up a dojang, the name of the dojang was Jae Ill Hap Ki Do.
MW: What does Jae Ill mean?
CKT: #9; Jae Ill means 1st Hap Ki Do Club.
MW: #9; When did you open the dojang?
CKT: 1965 or 1966
MW: What did you do between 1962 and 1966?
CKT: My business I opened was named Jong Am Dong Corporation. My house was on mountainside and I was teaching six or seven students. I was also teaching university students from Kwung Hi University.
MW: Who was the first Black Belt that you promoted?
CKT: His Name was Kim, Yong Sool He was a University student.
MW: Who was your first student in Canada?
CKT: John Tefner. He now lives in the Los Angeles area and I believe he is a minister now.
MW: Who is your chief instructor under you now?
CKT: There is, 6th Dan in Tae Kwon Do, and 5th Dan Hap Ki Do, David Murray of New Brunswick, Canada. He is my highest rank in Hap Ki Do, and Acting President of the Canadian Hap Ki Do Association. Lee, Hong Bok first studied with me in 1973 when I moved to this city, Toronto. Then one problem, General Choi moved here about forty minutes away and told me to move to another town because he wanted this area for his student, Park, Jung Soo. Then he called for me to meet with Park, Jung Soo and he suggested that I should move to the United States or someplace else. I told him that I have Police Hap Ki Do Association all through this Canadian area and is registered with the Canadian Government. Now back in Korea, General Choi was a influential man in 1964. At that time, General Choi told me he is going to write Tae Kwon Do books and he would like to see Hap Ki Do self defense techniques. General Choi and I and Master Black Belts met together at a military hall and I demonstrated many techniques were grabbing techniques, all kinds of techniques against weapons and guns. When General Choi made first his Tae Kwon Do training course he came to my house and he told me I was a good Tae Kwon Do man. He wanted to include self defense techniques for Tae Kwon Do, because Tae Kwon Do was known for kicking and punching. General Choi made Tae Kwon Do very big in South Korea and he had Tae Kwon Do instructors teaching the International Forms for competition and developing strong schools all over the world, United States, Canada, Europe and more. General Choi then told me I could have any place that I want to teach. He said, USA, Canada, anywhere. I chose Canada. This is where I have my home. When I first came to Canada my club offered Yudo, Hap Ki Do and Tae Kwon Do. Nearby was a Japanese Judo School and the Japanese Instructor asked to see my Yudo, he wanted to see the difference between Korean and Japanese. Yudo vs. Judo, well, I had Yudo in junior school so when I demonstrated to this Japanese Instructor I combined Yudo and Hap Ki Do.
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Right away I would beat this Instructor and he asked me what is this you are using with your Yudo techniques that gives me so much pain. I told him I was very fortunate to learn Hap Ki Do from the very best, the Founder of Hap Ki Do, the Great Grandmaster Choi, Yong Sul. He said: "I have never seen anything so devastating as this art." The instructor said he wanted this kind of knowledge to give to his students, "please teach me."
MW: That was very interesting about how Tae Kwon Do acquired some Hap Ki Do techniques and also the respect of a Japanese Master when he became exposed to such devastating techniques. Lets get back to when General Choi spoke to you about incorporating Hap Ki Do into Tae Kwon Do at what level of Tae Kwon Do did you have to be to learn Hap Ki Do?
CKT: General Choi said it is a very good idea to have the self defense techniques of Hap Ki Do in our Tae Kwon Do program. I do not know what level, he just wanted to show self defense techniques to his people in his book. General Choi is a very smart person and he wanted to help his people so he wanted to show them self defense techniques for Tae Kwon Do. Tae Kwon Do Instructors never saw these type of techniques, just kicking, punching, jump kicking and breaking and forms.
In 1969 General Choi started writing his Tae Kwon Do book, and he took many pictures of me doing Hap Ki Do techniques to be published in his first book in Korea which came out in 1972. General Choi said as the first generation teacher, he asked me where I would like to go and teach Tae Kwon Do and Hap Ki Do and I told him in Canada. I moved to Toronto Canada where I opened up my 1st school in 1973 and you, Master Mike, came to my school and we met for the first time in 1974.
MJW: General Choi asked you to teach Hap Ki Do for Masters and Spoke of incorporating Hap Ki Do into Tae Kwon Do. Did General Choi put Hap Ki Do in his book as a requirement for Tae Kwon Do Black Belts.
CKT: General Choi put it in his book for Tae Kwon Do people, students and teachers to see. To help Tae Kwon Do teachers and students understand self defense. Most Tae Kwon Do Masters, teachers and students know that there is self defense in Tae Kwon Do they are not aware that it comes from Hap Ki Do.
MJW: What do you remember about what the late Grandmaster Choi, Yong Sul said about his teacher in Japan.
CKT: Then Grandmaster Choi, Yong Sul started talking about when he began with his teacher Takeda, Sokaku. He started like everyone else did, He had to clean the school, learn to sit properly and to watch. No lessons. For six months Choi, Yong Sul cleaned, sat and watched. It was not like it is now, where you pay and then you take lessons. After 6 months Choi, Yong Sul spent living in the dojang and doing everything for his teacher, his teacher finally agreed that it is time for this young man, he wants to learn, now I will teach him.
Note:
No doubt this interview will cause many a Hap Ki Do masters especially those from the 1960’s and before, to say that a master teaching hap ki do to another stylist is betraying or maybe disloyal and it is not right to give this knowledge away. Yet, on the other hand many Tae Kwon Do masters in the present will say that their art has always had a large field of self defense and this can not be true, but Hap Ki Do founder Grand Master Choi, Yong Sul (Sool) contributed much to the many Korean Arts of our time.
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The word Hap Ki has always been in the Chinese characters when the late Grand Master Yong Sul Choi came back from Japan to Korea. He added the " Do" which is actually part of jujutsu. So, we are basically saying it has remained the same name. .....jms..1999 6