RealCombat 1.0

[다솜]

Introduction
I have frequently been less than satisfied with the quick and bloody combats in vanilla M2TW, and the often unrealistic results, particularly when it comes to the high casualties being dealt to heavily armored combatants by poorly equipped opponents. This was especially noticeable in the case of swords, light spears and most bow weapons, which were simply not designed or able to penetrate that level of protection.

We are also faced with the problem that the game system only currently allows us to upgrade one armor point per upgrade, since the more complex ‘stat_armor_ex’ system in the export_descr_units file was not implemented.

Armor System
For the purposes of this mod then, I have implemented the following armor system:

Armor Level
Description
{LEVEL_0}
None
{LEVEL_1}
Padded
{LEVEL_2}
Hardened Leather
{LEVEL_3}
Partial Light Mail
{LEVEL_4}
Light Mail
{LEVEL_5}
Partial Heavy Mail
{LEVEL_6}
Heavy Mail
{LEVEL_7}
Partial Platemail
{LEVEL_8}
Platemail
{LEVEL_9}
Light Plate
{LEVEL_10}
Heavy Plate
{LEVEL_11}
Gothic Plate
{LEVEL_12}
Late Gothic Plate


Leather Tanner Smith upgrades to level 1-2, Blacksmith 3-4, Armorer 5-6 etc. Given that each unit can have 3 upgrades this leads to quite a flexible system, ie an unarmored unit can be upgraded to Partial Light Mail. The right level smith will automatically upgrade the unit 2 levels if it can have that armor.

It also leads to good flexibility in armoring the unit as it is depicted in the game, eg Janissary Heavy Infantry has Partial Light Mail to start, when you look at the unit the mail coat only covers the torso and not the arms or legs. It can be upgraded to Partial Heavy Mail and this fits with how the unit looks. Norman knights for instance start out with level 6, full Heavy Mail.

Now the approximate joules of force required to penetrate each of the above types of armor is as follows (this obviously can vary to some degree but the values I have chosen seem reasonably representative and useful):

(Note: all armor types above ‘Padded’ are assumed to have a padded leather jack underneath.)

Armor Level
Description
Joules of Force to Penetrate
{LEVEL_1}
Padded
30J
{LEVEL_2}
Hardened Leather
60J
{LEVEL_3}
Partial Light Mail
75J
{LEVEL_4}
Light Mail
90J
{LEVEL_5}
Partial Heavy Mail
105J
{LEVEL_6}
Heavy Mail
120J
{LEVEL_7}
Partial Platemail
130J
{LEVEL_8}
Platemail
150J
{LEVEL_9}
Light Plate
170J
{LEVEL_10}
Heavy Plate
240J
{LEVEL_11}
Gothic Plate
280J
{LEVEL_12}
Late Gothic Plate
310J


An example of the kind of data used to generate the above:

Energy to defeat, in Joules:
Arrowhead vs. Buff Leather 30 J
Lance vs. Cuir-boulli 30-20 J
Lance vs. Padding (16 layers linen, 60g for 16 x 21 cm) 50 J
Arrowheads vs:
Modern Mail (mild steel) alone 80 J
Modern Mail & Jack Penetration 100 J
Modern Mail and Tailor's Dummy 100 J (Soar et al)
Modern Mail, Jack Penetration, and 35 mm penetration of Plastilene behind 120 J
15th c. Mail (low carbon steel hardened by quenching) two links broken and jack behind completely penetrated: 120 J
1 mm mild steel plate (perpendicular impact) 55 J for 45mm penetration
1. 5 mm mild steel plate 110 J
2 mm mild steel plate 175 J
1 mm “Victorian wrought iron”: 46 J for 51 mm penetration at 10 m
1.9 mm “Swedish” Wrought Iron 80-75 J

There is a great deal of this sort of information on the web.

Energy delivered:
Stabbing:
Underarm: up to 63 J
Overarm: up to 115 J
2-Handed weapon: 150J
English bows:
70 lb bow: 52-55 J (Hardy)
70 lb bow: 46-47 J at 10 m
80 lb bow: 70-83 J (61 J at 50 m)
140 lb bow: 99-104 J (Calculated from Soar et al)

Sorry to say the longbow isn't necessarily much use against plate armor!
Weapon System
Weapon attack values and armor values for every unit in the game have been re-worked based on the above sort of information, to yield the most realistic combat results possible. Weapon attack values now primarily reflect what level of protection as detailed above that weapon might reliably penetrate under inconsistent combat conditions (and at close range in the case of missile weapons), bearing in mind the armor piercing attribute also.
Example: a longsword might generate anywhere between 60-120J, so its attack has reasonably been set to 4. A 2H sword might be 90-150J, so attack is 6.
Example: a polearm now has a lower attack value than a 2H sword and attacks more slowly, so the 2H sword is more effective against lightly armoured opponents.

Weapon Type
Base Attack Value
Typical Special Attributes
Base Attack Delay
light sword
2
-
0
sword
3
-
0
long sword
4
-
25
2H sword
6
-
50
light spear
2
spear bonus
0
spear
3
spear bonus
25
knife
1

0
archer’s mallet
1
ap
25
club
2

25
mace, hatchet, war hammer
2
ap
25
battle axe, morning star/large mace
3
ap
50
2H club
4

75
pike
4
long pike, spear bonus
50
lance
4
very high charge bonus
-
billhook
4
ap
75
polearm
5
ap
100
polearm
5
ap, spear bonus
125
polearm
4
ap, long pike, spear bonus
75
bow
3
-
-
composite bow
4
-
-
longbow
5
-
-
mounted crossbow
5
ap
-
light crossbow
6
ap
-
javelin
7
ap
-
arbalest
8
ap
-
handgun
10
ap
-
arquebus
11
ap
-
musket
12
ap
-


From the previous table:
Base attack value: +1 for high quality troops (eg knight, janissary), -1 for low quality (eg militia), +1 per experience level (bronze, silver, gold). Minimum value is 1. This includes bows, as a more experienced archer can draw a heavier weight and fire more accurately.

Base attack delay: -25 for high quality, +25 for low trained, +50 for untrained (eg peasant). Minimum delay is zero; for units on horseback the minimum is 25 to stop ‘knights on cocaine’ syndrome.

For example, a knight with a longsword has attack value 4 for longsword +1 for knight=5, and attack delay of 25 for longsword -25 for knight =0. A peasant who can even get his hands on a longsword would have attack value 4 for longsword -1 for peasant=3, and attack delay of 25 for longsword +50 for untrained =75.

Note: I will say that though attack delay is billed in export_descr_unit.txt as the ‘minimum delay between attacks in 1/10ths of a second’, in practice it doesn’t seem to reliably work this way. All you can really say is that, usually more than half the time, a unit with higher delay than its opponent will attack less frequently. It is just another factor to throw in with the attack value and animations.

Further testing with attack delays would definitely be useful and if anyone can provide more data and results I would be grateful J

Horse Charge values: Note that the lance has only a base 4 attack, which is reasonable in the middle of a melee if the horse is moving only a little. If the horse is charging however, the following charge bonus applies:

Pony or fast pony: 10
Heavy or mailed horse: 12
Barded or eastern armoured horse: 13
Armored horse: 14.

Higher values reflect the fact that horses carrying heavier armor will typically be larger (eg knight’s charger or warhorse was specially bred for size and power) which will translate into more damage at the point of the lance.

Non-couched spears receive a charge bonus of 8 no matter the horse variety, as they cannot translate its momentum into damage nearly as effectively.

Swords or light spears on horseback receive a charge bonus of 6.

Axes, maces or light swords on horseback receive a charge bonus of 4.


Implications of this System
-Combats last longer. It can take odds of 3 or 4 to one by lighter units to take on plate armored troops, and even then its often only tiredness that takes them down.

-Unit costs tend to reflect this, given that, for example, the armored warhorses alone of a group of knights could cost 5 times the yearly wage of a militia spear unit. Those militia spear units won't be dealing major casualties to your heavy units like they can in vanilla any more. I deal with unit costs further down.

- The value of armor piercing units rises dramatically, though they typically attack more slowly due to the bulk of the weapon weight being concentrated at the striking end and consequently having to regain balance after each attack. You will now find serious value in your polearm troops as the preval‎ence of heavy armor increases, as it was in history. To crack an armored opponent you want an axe, mace or polearm, not a sword. Unless a weak spot was found, the fact is that swords simply weren't very effective against anything from chainmail up. However, they deal plenty of damage to more lightly armoured opponents and also attack more quickly. The zweihander now finds one of its true roles of breaking up pike units, it dealing more outright damage than any other weapon and attacking relatively quickly, even if not armor piercing (I am considering raising its base attack value to 7 rather than 6). Still, in the hands of an experienced unit, swords can still be a threat to armor, leading on to…

-Unit experience level (bronze, silver, gold) adding to attack value is considerably more important now, relative to vanilla. Give your quality troops lots of militia and peasants to chew on.

-The charge is more important. Melee weapon upgrades are more important.

-A typical result from this system: 1 unit of Dismounted English Knights (poleaxe 5ap+1 for knight, 100 attack delay – 25 for knight) vs 3 units of Sudanese Tribesmen (sword 3, attack delay 0) results in many tribesmen dying quickly but the knights are getting hit a lot and are eventually overwhelmed, their weapon being slow and the AP attribute not helping much. A unit of French Dismounted Chivalric Knights (sword 4+1 for knight, attack delay 25-25 for knight) though will beat the tribesmen much more easily due to their higher protection (shield) and faster attack. One on one however the DEK will usually comfortably beat the CK, because that is the type of opponent they are intended to face.

-At first glance the attack values look far too low, but I just suggest you try it out, I think you will find the combats are still lethal enough. Just don’t put 2 units of inexperienced but shield-carrying armor-upgraded knights against each other and expect much more than a lot of ‘ding’ sounds for a while as the swords bounce off! There is in fact research to suggest that when knights did fight with only swords, it was often because they didn’t really want to kill each other (they would rather kill a lowly peasant on their own side than another noble ‘equal’ no matter which side) but rather just to force a surrender and collect the subsequent ransom. Mace and polearm carrying knights however are not so polite!!

-The system will yield better results once the @#%$! shield bug is fixed.


Unit Recruitment and Upkeep Costs
Also included is a complete re-work of recruitment cost and upkeep for every unit in the game based on actual medieval‎ costs for armor, mount, training and wages. The overall result is that infantry costs drop, cavalry (especially knights etc) costs rise, and upkeep is a higher percentage of unit cost overall.

Armor
Cost
Gothic Plate
400
Plate
300
Plate Mail
200
Heavy Mail
100
Light Mail
80
Leather or Shield
10


Mount
Cost
Pony
100
Fast Pony
140
Heavy Horse
200
Mailed Horse
400
Barded Horse
600
Eastern Armoured Horse
700
Armored Horse
800



Unit Training
Cost
Militia Cavalry
100
Cavalry
160
Horse Archer
200
Elite Cavalry
240
Peasant Archer or Crossbow
80
Militia Archer
100
Trained Archer
140
Expert Archer, Longbowman
160
Elite Archer
180
Militia Crossbow
80
Militia Arqebusier
100
Crossbow
100
Arquebusier
120
Elite Crossbow
120
Peasant Infantry
40
Militia Infantry
60
Infantry
100
Quality Infantry
140
Foot Knight
190


Missile weapons are relatively expensive due to time require to become proficient with the weapon.
Unit to be Paid/Supported
Wage/Upkeep
Peasant
80
Militia
90
Regular Infantry
150
Archer
150
Longbowmen
200
Heavy Infantry
200
Militia Cavalry
200
Quality Infantry
240
Regular Cavalry
240
Quality Cavalry
300
Foot Knight
300
Horsed Knight
400

Horse upkeep: a further 20.

Total Recruitment Cost = Armor+Horse+Training+Wage/Upkeep
Upkeep/year=Wage/Upkeep

I have followed the above formula as a guide for all units along with some minor tweaks, for example religious order troops have a slightly lower upkeep since (in theory) they aren’t in it just for the money.

Mercenaries
I have set mercenary upkeep (‘Hiring’) costs/year to (Recruitment Cost+Wage)/2, reflecting the fact that mercenary troops are immediately available, paid considerably more/year but you don’t have to train them. In my own descr_mercenaries file I have made the recruitment cost the same as this Hiring cost. It makes mercenaries a decent option for 1 or maybe 2 years but after that you are losing money compared to recruiting the regular alternative.

I obtained much of the above from the ‘Medieval‎ Price List’, which is available on the web. Parts are extracted below for those who are interested:

*********************************************************************

1 pound (L) = 20 shillings (s)
1 crown = 5 shillings
1 shilling = 12 pence (d)
1 penny = 4 farthings
1 mark = 13s 4d

WAGES
Profession Wage Date Source Page
Mercenaries:
knight banneret 4s/day 1316 [4] 78
knight 2s/day " " "
man-at-arms or squire 1s/day " " "

Regular Army
Esquires, constables, and
centenars 1s/day 1346 [4] 79
Mounted archers, armored
infantry, hobilars,
vintenars 6d/day " " "
Welsh vintenars 4d/day " " "
Archers 3d/day " " "
Welsh infantry 2d/day " " "
Captain 8s/day late 16 cen [4] 181
Lieutenant 4s/day " " "
Ensign 2s/day " " "
Drummer or trumpeter 20d/day " " "


*********************************************************************

ARMOR
Item Price Date Source Page
Mail 100s 12 cen(?? [7] 30
Ready-made Milanese armor L8 6s 8d 1441 [4] 112
Squire's armor L5-L6 16s 8d " " "
Armor for Prince of Wales,
"gilt and graven" L340 1614 [5] 20
Complete Lance Armor L3 6s 8d 1590 [5] 185
Complete corselets 30s " " "
Cuirass of proof with pauldrons 40s " " "
Normal cuirass with pauldrons 26s 8d " " "
Target of proof 30s " " "
Morion 3s 4d " " "
Burgonet 4s " " "
Cuirass of pistol-proof with
pauldrons L1 6s 1624 [5] 189-190
Cuirass without pauldrons L1 " " "
Lance Armor L4 " " "
Targets of Proof 24s " " "
Cuirass with cap L4 " " "
Armor of proof L14 2s 8d 1667 " 68
Bascinet 13s 4d + 1369 " 88
16 3s 4d to
line it
Armor in a merchant's house
(leather?) 5s 1285-1290 [3] 206
Total Armor owned by a knight L16 6s 8d 1374 " 76 325
Armor in house of Thomas of
Woodstock, duke of Gloucester L103 1397 " 77
Fee for cleaning rust off
corselets 5d each 1567 [5] 80
Fee for varnishing, replacing
straps, and rivetting helmet
and corselet 1s 4d 1613 [5] 90
Barrel for cleaning mail 9d 1467 [5] 79

Item Price Date Source Page
War Horse up to 50s 12 cen (?) [7] 30
War Horse up to L80 13 cen [3] 72
Knight's 2 horses L10 1374 " 76
High-grade riding horse L10 13th cen " 72
Draught horse 10s-20s 13th cen " "

Item Price Date Source Page
Cheap sword (peasant's) 6d 1340s [3] 174
Pair of wheel-lock pistols,
with tools for them L2 16s mid 17th [4] 208
Holsters for pistols 6d " " "
Wheel-lock carbine L1 10s " " "
Shoulder belt for carbine 1s " " "
Pair of flintlock pistols L2 5s " " "
Flintlock carbine L1 2s " " "
Musket 16s 6d-18s 6d "

[Download RealCombat 1.0]

다솜모드가는길

[우유나라왕자a]

...무슨 모드 에요- _-...

[#tA。HaNiBaL、]

에... 리얼컴뱃이라고 써있거보니까 리얼하게 싸우나본데요? ㅇㅅㅇ... 장문이라 패스.

[카롤루스]

조금 설명이라도 넣으시지... 대략 너무 빨리 유닛이 죽는 것을 보완하기 위해 아머와 무기업글의 중요성을 높인 모드라고 하는 것 같습니다.

[북두]

질문이요~~!! 저기 압축풀면 데이타폴더 나오는데 그냥 덮어씌우는지 아니면 설명서대로 화일변환 시켜야 되는건지 자세히좀 알려주세요 ~~~

[다솜]

모드에 적용하시면되겠습니다. 카롤루스님말처럼 아머와 무기업그레이드를 추가했군요. 더불어서 무기업그레이드에 따른 비용과 수치조작을 한 파일입니다.

[다솜]

쉴드와 아머를 자체적으로 조정한 것 같군요. 눈에 띄는것은 쉴드버그를 자체적으로 수정했고 아머와 무기에 순차적인 업그레이드를 추가해주었으며 업그레이드시 그에 따른 추가 패널티를 주었군요. 비용과 유지비를 수정하였고, 역사적전투에 맞게 수치를 조절해준 파일입니다.

[다솜]

대체적으로 기병유닛에 차지보너스를 주었고 쉴드수치에 타격수치를 더한 것 같네요. 대체적으로 유닛의 능력치들을 상향조절한 듯 싶습니다.

[북두]

다솜님 답변 감사합니다 이거 해보니까 보병들이 쉽게 않털리네요 전투도 좀 오래가고 제나름대로는 만족하네요 병력들 움직이고 잠깐동안이나마 전투를 지켜볼수있다는거 ㅎㅎㅎ 모드깔기전에는 어택시키면 바로 판가름나던데..좋네요

[하라주꾸]

모드에 적용한다는 것이 모드 데이터 파일에 덮어씌우는 것을 말하나요?