정치 어떤 의견 (펌)

[nola]

"펌"이라는 단어를 아직 잘 모르지만 글맥을 앞뒤로 보니 어디서 가져온 글인 것 같읍니다.

여기는 한글만을 써야하는지?도 모르고 

또한 제가 긴 글을 해석해서 올릴 수도 없으니 관심이 있으시면 읽어 보시라 올립니다. 

지금 미국에 관한 글로서 저는 놀라운 의견을 접했다고 생각하기에 나누려 합니다만

카페의 성격상 아니라면 운영진께서 지우셔도 무방하겠읍니다.

(정치, 시사난에 올리려 몇번을 시도했으나 잘 안되었읍니다.)

San Diego Free Press 에 실렸던 글입니다.

The Dark Rigidity of Fundamentalist Rural America: An Insider View

NOVEMBER 23, 2016 BY SOURCE

In deep-red white America, the white Christian God is king

By Forsetti’s Justice / AlterNet

(Photo by Arturo Sotillo, Flickr)

As the aftermath of the election of Donald Trump is being sorted out, a common theme keeps cropping up from all sides: “Democrats failed to understand white, working-class, fly-over America.”

Trump supporters are saying this. Progressive pundits are saying this. Talking heads across all forms of the media are saying this. Even some Democratic leaders are saying this. It doesn’t matter how many people say it, it is complete bullshit. It is an intellectual/linguistic sleight of hand meant to throw attention away from the real problem. The real problem isn’t east coast elites who don’t understand or care about rural America. The real problem is rural America doesn’t understand the causes of their own situations and fears and they have shown no interest in finding out. They don’t want to know why they feel the way they do or why they are struggling because they don’t want to admit it is in large part because of choices they’ve made and horrible things they’ve allowed themselves to believe.

I grew up in rural, Christian, white America. You’d be hard-pressed to find an area in the country that has a higher percentage of Christians or whites. I spent most of the first 24 years of my life deeply embedded in this culture. I religiously (pun intended) attended their Christian services. I worked off and on, on their rural farms. I dated their calico skirted daughters. I camped, hunted, and fished with their sons. I listened to their political rants at the local diner and truck stop. I winced at their racist/bigoted jokes and epithets that were said more out of ignorance than animosity. I have also watched the town I grew up in go from a robust economy with well-kept homes and infrastructure turn into a struggling economy with shuttered businesses, dilapidated homes, and a broken down infrastructure over the past 30 years. The problem isn’t that I don’t understand these people. The problem is they don’t understand themselves, the reasons for their anger/frustrations, and don’t seem to care to know why.

In deep-red white America, the white Christian God is king, figuratively and literally. Religious fundamentalism is what has shaped most of their belief systems. Systems built on a fundamentalist framework are not conducive to introspection, questioning, learning, change. When you have a belief system that is built on fundamentalism, it isn’t open to outside criticism, especially by anyone not a member of your tribe and in a position of power. The problem isn’t “coastal elites don’t understand rural Americans.” The problem is rural America doesn’t understand itself and will NEVER listen to anyone outside their bubble. It doesn’t matter how “understanding” you are, how well you listen, what language you use…if you are viewed as an outsider, your views are automatically discounted. I’ve had hundreds of discussions with rural white Americans and whenever I present them any information that contradicts their entrenched beliefs, no matter how sound, how unquestionable, how obvious, they WILL NOT even entertain the possibility it might be true. Their refusal is a result of the nature of their fundamentalist belief system and the fact I’m the enemy because I’m an educated liberal.

At some point during the discussion, “That’s your education talking,” will be said, derogatorily, as a general dismissal of everything I said. They truly believe this is a legitimate response because to them education is not to be trusted. Education is the enemy of fundamentalism because fundamentalism, by its very nature, is not built on facts. The fundamentalists I grew up around aren’t anti-education. They want their kids to know how to read and write. They are anti-quality, in-depth, broad, specialized education. Learning is only valued up to the certain point. Once it reaches the level where what you learn contradicts doctrine and fundamentalist arguments, it becomes dangerous. I watched a lot of my fellow students who were smart, stop their education the day they graduated high school. For most of the young ladies, getting married and having kids was more important than continuing their learning. For many of the young men, getting a college education was seen as unnecessary and a waste of time. For the few who did go to college, what they learned was still filtered through their fundamentalist belief system. If something they were taught didn’t support a preconception, it would be ignored and forgotten the second it was no longer needed to pass an exam.

Knowing this about their belief system and their view of outside information that doesn’t support it, telling me that the problem is coastal elites not understanding them completely misses the point.

Another problem with rural, Christian, white Americans is they are racists. I’m not talking about white hood-wearing, cross-burning, lynching racists (though some are). I’m talking about people who deep down in their heart of hearts truly believe they are superior because they are white. Their white God made them in his image and everyone else is a less-than-perfect version, flawed and cursed.

The religion in which I was raised taught this. Even though they’ve backtracked on some of their more racist declarations, many still believe the original claims. Non-whites are the color they are because of their sins, or at least the sins of their ancestors. Blacks don’t have dark skin because of where they lived and evolution; they have dark skin because they are cursed. God cursed them for a reason. If God cursed them, treating them as equals would be going against God’s will. It is really easy to justify treating people differently if they are cursed by God and will never be as good as you no matter what they do because of some predetermined status.

Once you have this view, it is easy to lower the outside group’s standing and acceptable level of treatment. Again, there are varying levels of racism at play in rural, Christian, white America. I know people who are ardent racists. I know a lot more whose racism is much more subtle but nonetheless racist. It wouldn’t take sodium pentothal to get most of these people to admit they believe they are fundamentally better and superior to minorities. They are white supremacists who dress up in white dress shirts, ties, and gingham dresses. They carry a Bible and tell you, “everyone’s a child of God” but forget to mention that some of God’s children are more favored than others and skin tone is the criterion by which we know who is and who isn’t at the top of God’s list of most favored children.

For us “coastal elites” who understand evolution, genetics, science…nothing we say to those in fly-over country is going to be listened to because not only are we fighting against an anti-education belief system, we are arguing against God. You aren’t winning a battle of beliefs with these people if you are on one side of the argument and God is on the other. No degree of understanding this is going to suddenly make them less racist, more open to reason and facts. Telling “urban elites” they need to understand rural Americans isn’t going to lead to a damn thing because it misses the causes of the problem.

Because rural, Christian, white Americans will not listen to educated arguments, supported by facts that go against their fundamentalist belief systems from “outsiders,” any change must come from within. Internal change in these systems does happen, but it happens infrequently and it always lags far behind reality. This is why they fear change so much. They aren’t used to it. Of course, it really doesn’t matter whether they like it or not, it, like the evolution and climate change even though they don’t believe it, it is going to happen whether they believe in it or not.

Another major problem with closed-off, fundamentalist belief systems is they are very susceptible to propaganda. All belief systems are to some extent, but fundamentalist systems even more so because there are no checks and balances. If bad information gets in, it doesn’t get out and because there are no internal mechanisms to guard against it, it usually ends up very damaging to the whole. A closed-off belief system is like your spinal fluid—it is great as long as nothing infectious gets into it. If bacteria gets into your spinal fluid, it causes unbelievable damage because there are no white blood cells in it whose job is to fend off invaders and protect the system. This is why things like meningitis are so horrible. Without the protective services of white blood cells in the spinal column, meningitis spreads like wildfire once it’s in and does significant damage in a very short period of time. Once inside the closed-off spinal system, bacteria are free to destroy whatever they want.

The very same is true with closed-off belief systems. Without built-in protective functions like critical analysis, self-reflection, openness to counter-evidence, willingness to re-eval‎‎uate any and all beliefs, etc., bad information in a closed-off system ends up doing massive damage in short period of time. What has happened to too many fundamentalist belief systems is damaging information has been allowed in from people who have been granted “expert status.” If someone is allowed into a closed-off system and their information is deemed acceptable, anything they say will readily be accepted and become gospel.

Rural, Christian, white Americans have let in anti-intellectual, anti-science, bigoted, racists into their system as experts like Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Bill O’Reilly, any of the blonde Stepford Wives on Fox, every evangelical preacher on television because they tell them what they want to hear and because they sell themselves as being “one of them.” The truth is none of these people give a rat’s ass about rural, Christian, white Americans except how can they exploit them for attention and money. None of them have anything in common with the people who have let them into their belief systems with the exception they are white and they “speak the same language” of white superiority, God’s will must be obeyed, and how, even though they are the Chosen Ones, they are the ones being screwed by all the people and groups they believe they are superior to.

Gays being allowed to marry are a threat. Blacks protesting the killing of their unarmed friends and family are a threat. Hispanics doing the cheap labor on their farms are somehow viewed a threat. The black President is a threat. Two billion Muslims are a threat. The Chinese are a threat. Women wanting to be autonomous are a threat. The college educated are a threat. Godless scientists are a threat. Everyone who isn’t just like them has been sold to them as a threat and they’ve bought it hook, line, and grifting sinker. Since there are no self-regulating mechanisms in their belief systems, these threats only grow over time. Since facts and reality don’t matter, nothing you say to them will alter their beliefs. “President Obama was born in Kenya, is a secret member of the Muslim Brotherhood who hates white Americans and is going to take away their guns.” I feel ridiculous even writing this, it is so absurd, but it is gospel across large swaths of rural America. Are rural, Christian, white Americans scared? You’re damn right they are. Are their fears rational and justified? Hell no. The problem isn’t understanding their fears. The problem is how to assuage fears based on lies in closed-off fundamentalist belief systems that don’t have the necessary tools for properly eval‎‎uating the fears.

I don’t have a good answer to this question. When a child has an irrational fear, you can deal with it because they trust you and are open to possibilities. When someone doesn’t trust you and isn’t open to anything not already accepted as true in their belief system, there really isn’t much, if anything you can do. This is why I think the whole, “Democrats have to understand and find common ground with rural America,” is misguided and a complete waste of time. When a 3,000-year-old book that was written by uneducated, pre-scientific people, subject to translation innumerable times, edited with political and economic pressures from popes and kings, is given higher intellectual authority than facts arrived at from a rigorous, self-critical, constantly re-eval‎‎uating system that can and does correct mistakes, no amount of understanding, no amount of respect, no amount of evidence is going to change their minds, assuage their fears.

Do you know what does change the beliefs of fundamentalists, sometimes? When something becomes personal. Many a fundamentalist has changed his mind about the LGBT community once his loved ones started coming out of the closet. Many have not. But those who did, did so because their personal experience came in direct conflict with what they believe. My own father is a good example of this. For years I had long, sometimes heated discussions with him about gay rights. Being the good religious fundamentalist he is, he could not even entertain the possibility he was wrong. The Church said it was wrong so therefore it was wrong. No questions ask. No analysis needed. This changed when one of his step children who he adores came out of the closet. He didn’t do a complete 180. He has a view that tries to accept gay rights while at the same time viewing it as a mortal sin because his need to have his belief system be right outweighs everything else.

This isn’t uncommon. Deeply held beliefs are usually only altered, replaced under catastrophic circumstances that are personal. This belief system alteration works both ways. I know die hard, open-minded progressives who became ardent fundamentalists due to a traumatic event in their lives.

A really good example of this is the comedian Dennis Miller. I’ve seen Miller in concert four different times during the 1990s. His humor was complex, riddled with references, and leaned pretty left on almost all issues. Then 9/11 happened. For whatever reasons, the trauma of 9/11 caused a seismic shift in Miller’s belief system. Now he is a mainstay on conservative talk radio. His humor was replaced with anger and frustration. 9/11 changed his belief system because it was a catastrophic event that was personal to him.

The catastrophe of the Great Depression along with the progressive remedies by FDR helped create a generation of Democrats from previously die-hard Republicans. People who had, up until that point, deeply believed the government couldn’t help the economy only the free market could change their minds when the brutal reality of the Great Depression affected them directly, personally.

I thought the financial crisis in 2008 would have a similar, though lesser, impact on many Republicans. It didn’t. The systems that were put in place after the Great Recession to deal with economic crises, the quick, smart response by Congress and the administration helped make what could have been a catastrophic event into merely a really bad one. People suffered, but they didn’t suffer enough to where they were open to questioning their deeply held beliefs. Because this questioning didn’t take place, the Great Recession didn’t lead to any meaningful political shift away from poorly regulated markets, supply side economics, or how to respond to a financial crisis. This is why, even though rural Christian white Americans were hit hard by the Great Recession, they not only didn’t blame the political party they’ve aligned themselves with for years, they rewarded them two years later by voting them into a record number of state legislatures and taking over the U.S. House.

Of course, it didn’t help matters there were scapegoats available they could direct their fears, anger, and white supremacy towards. A significant number of rural Americans believe President Obama was in charge when the financial crisis started. An even higher number believe the mortgage crisis was the result of the government forcing banks to give loans to unqualified minorities. It doesn’t matter how untrue both of these are, they are gospel in rural America. Why reeval‎‎uate your beliefs and voting patterns when scapegoats are available?

How do you make climate change personal to someone who believes only God can alter the weather? How do you make racial equality personal to someone who believes whites are naturally superior to non-whites? How do you make gender equality personal to someone who believes women are supposed to be subservient to men by God’s command? How do you get someone to view minorities as not threatening personal to people who don’t live around and never interact with them? How do you make personal the fact massive tax cuts and cutting back government hurts their economic situation when they’ve voted for these for decades? I don’t think you can without some catastrophic events. And maybe not even then. The Civil War was pretty damn catastrophic yet a large swath of the South believed and still believes they were right, had the moral high ground. They were/are also mostly Christian fundamentalists who believe they are superior because of the color of their skin and the religion they profess to follow. There is a pattern here for anyone willing to connect the dots.

“Rural, white America needs to be better understood,” is not one of the dots. “Rural, white America needs to be better understood,” is a dodge, meant to avoid the real problems because talking about the real problems is viewed as “too upsetting,” “too mean,” “too arrogant,” “too elite,” “too snobbish.” Pointing out Aunt Bee’s views of Mexicans, blacks, gays…is bigoted isn’t the thing one does in polite society. Too bad more people don’t think the same about the views Aunt Bee has. It’s the classic, “You’re a racist for calling me a racist,” ploy. Or, as it is more commonly known, “I know you are but what am I?”

I do think rational arguments are needed, even if they go mostly ignored and ridiculed. I believe in treating people with the respect they’ve earned but the key point here is “earned.” I’ll gladly sit down with Aunt Bee and have a nice, polite conversation about her beliefs about “the gays,” “the blacks,” “illegals,”…and do so without calling her a bigot or a racist. But, this doesn’t mean she isn’t a bigot and a racist and if I’m asked to describe her beliefs these are the only words that honestly fit. No one with cancer wants to be told they have cancer, but just because no one uses the word, “cancer,” it doesn’t mean they don’t have it. Just because the media, pundits on all sides, some Democratic leaders don’t want to call the actions of many rural, Christian, white Americans, “racist/bigoted” doesn’t make them not so.

Avoiding the obvious only prolongs getting the necessary treatment. America has always had a race problem. It was built on racism and bigotry. This didn’t miraculously go away in 1964 with the passage of the Civil Rights Act. It didn’t go away with the election of Barack Obama. If anything, these events pulled back the curtain exposing the dark, racist underbelly of America that white America likes to pretend doesn’t exist because we are the reason it exists. From the white nationalists to the white, suburban soccer moms who voted for Donald Trump, to the far left progressives who didn’t vote at all, racism exists and has once again been legitimized and normalized by white America.

The honest truths that rural, Christian, white Americans don’t want to accept and until they do nothing is going to change, are:

-Their economic situation is largely the result of voting for supply-side economic policies that have been the largest redistribution of wealth from the bottom/middle to the top in U.S. history.

-Immigrants haven’t taken their jobs. If all immigrants, legal or otherwise, were removed from the U.S., our economy would come to a screeching halt and prices on food would soar.

-Immigrants are not responsible for companies moving their plants overseas. Almost exclusively white business owners are the ones responsible because they care more about their share holders who are also mostly white than they do American workers.

-No one is coming for their guns. All that has been proposed during the entire Obama administration is having better background checks.

-Gay people getting married is not a threat to their freedom to believe in whatever white God you want to. No one is going to make their church marry gays, make gays your pastor, accept gays for membership.

-Women having access to birth control doesn’t affect their life either, especially women who they complain about being teenage, single mothers.

-Blacks are not “lazy moochers living off their hard earned tax dollars” anymore than many of your fellow rural neighbors. People in need are people in need. People who can’t find jobs because of their circumstances, a changing economy, outsourcing overseas, etc. belong to all races.

-They get a tremendous amount of help from the government they complain does nothing for them. From the roads and utility grids they use to the farm subsidies, crop insurance, commodities protections…they benefit greatly from government assistance. The Farm Bill is one of the largest financial expenditures by the U.S. government. Without government assistance, their lives would be considerably worse.

-They get the largest share of Food Stamps, Medicaid, Medicare, and Social Security.

-They complain about globalization but line up like everyone else to get the latest Apple product. They have no problem buying foreign-made guns, scopes, and hunting equipment. They don’t think twice about driving trucks whose engine was made in Canada, tires made in Japan, radio made in Korea, computer parts made in Malaysia.

-They use illicit drugs as much as any other group. But, when other people do it is a “moral failing” and they should be severely punished, legally. When they do it, it is a “health crisis” that needs sympathy and attention.

-When jobs dry up for whatever reasons, they refuse to relocate but lecture the poor in places like Flint for staying in towns that are failing.

-They are quick to judge minorities for being “welfare moochers” but don’t think twice about cashing their welfare check every month.

-They complain about coastal liberals, but the taxes from California and New York are what covers their farm subsidies, helps maintain their highways, and keeps their hospitals in their sparsely populated areas open for business.

-They complain about “the little man being run out of business” then turn around and shop at big box stores.

-They make sure outsiders are not welcome, deny businesses permits to build, then complain about businesses, plants opening up in less rural areas.

-Government has not done enough to help them in many cases but their local and state governments are almost completely Republican and so too are their representatives and senators. Instead of holding them accountable, they vote them in over and over and over again.

-All the economic policies and ideas that could help rural America belong to the Democratic Party: raising the minimum wage, strengthening unions, infrastructure spending, reusable energy growth, slowing down the damage done by climate change, healthcare reform…all of these and more would really help a lot of rural Americans.

What I understand is that rural, Christian, white Americans are entrenched in fundamentalist belief systems; don’t trust people outside their tribe; have been force-fed a diet of misinformation and lies for decades; are unwilling to understand their own situations; and truly believe whites are superior to all races. No amount of understanding is going to change these things or what they believe. No amount of niceties will get them to be introspective. No economic policy put forth by someone outside their tribe is going to be listened to no matter how beneficial it would be for them. I understand rural, Christian, white America all too well. I understand their fears are based on myths and lies. I understand they feel left behind by a world they don’t understand and don’t really care to. They are willing to vote against their own interest if they can be convinced it will make sure minorities are harmed more. Their Christian beliefs and morals are truly only extended to fellow white Christians. They are the problem with progress and always will be, because their belief systems are constructed against it.

The problem isn’t a lack of understanding by coastal elites. The problem is a lack of understanding of why rural, Christian, white America believes, votes, behaves the ways it does by rural, Christian, white America.

[빙세기]

자세히 읽기에 너무 길어서 건너뛰며 대충 봤습니다.
농촌에서 자란 필자의 경험에 근거한 글입니다.

모두들 트럼프가 당선된 것은 "민주당이 백인 농부와 노동자들을 이해하지 못해서다" 라고 하는데 틀렸다.
진짜 문제는 "백인 농부와 노동자들 자신이 그들의 현실과 분노의 원인을 이해하지 못하며 알려고 하지도 않는다" 는데 있다.

그들이 그럴수밖에 없는 이유는 근본주의 기독교에 있다.
그것은 사실에 근거한 것이 아니라 믿음을 우선시 한다.
그러기에 교육은 중요하지 않고 믿음을 어지럽힐 뿐이라고 생각한다.

그래서 백인인 신이 왕이고, 백인우월주의는 당연시 된다.

[빙세기]

그리고 그들은 반지성적이고 반과학적이고 편견에 가득찬 몇몇 선동가나 보수언론에 취약하다.

그들에게 근본주의 기독교의 믿음은 백인들에게만 적용된다.
그들은 자신들의 이해관계에 근거해서 노동자에게 이익이 되는 민주당에 투표하는 것이 아니라
소수민족에게 불리할거라고 판단되는 정책과 사람에게 투표한다.

늦은 시간 서둘러 요약하려다 보니 비약이 심해보입니다
이런 주제에 관심 있으신 분은 천천히 본문을 읽으시면 되겠습니다.

[빙세기]

이 글이 저의 흥미를 끈 것은 내부인의 관점이라는 것입니다.
어느 사회나 조직의 문제점에 대해 학자나 정치인들이 이러쿵저러쿵 하는 얘기는 많지만
위의 필자처럼 그 사회에서 자라난 일원이 내부고발자처럼 털어놓는 이야기를 접하기는 쉽지 않습니다.
문제들의 구체적인 실례들도 많이 들어서 흥미있습니다.

[제주아톰]

미국의 소위 'Coastal Elite(미국의 양 해안지역에 사는 교육받은 백인)'와 이민자들 중에서도 사실 위의 글의 의미를 잘 모르는 사람들도 많지만, 상황을 아주 잘 이해하고 있는 분들도 많습니다. 위 글에서 언급한 것과 같이 문제는 미국의 소위 바이블 벨트의 농촌지역에 사는 백인들의 전혀 바뀌지 않는 고정관념(신이 백인들을 우월한 인종으로 지었다는 것과 같은 믿음)이 이 21세기 Global한 시대에도 변하지 않는다는 겁니다. 이 글은 현재의 미국을 잘 나타내어 주는 좋은 글이긴 하지만, 이 역시 해결책은 별로 제시하지를 못하고 이런 곳에서 자라 세상에 나가 진실을 알게 된 이들의 노력이 관건이라는 그런 결론으로 맺습니다.

[제주아톰]

쪽지도 보냈으니 참고 하시기 바랍니다...

[시골농부]

저 자신 이곳 bible belt에 거주한지 13년이 되는 사람으로서
멘트를 해야 할 것 같습니다.
위에 펌글의 내용의 대부분 저도 동감하는 내용입니다.

시골의 백인들은 대부분 그런 우월감을 가지고 있습니다.
자기가 최고로 잘 알고 있다고 자부하면서 생활하고 있는 면면들이 아주 많이 보입니다.
한 가지 예를 들면, 백인농부들이 은행에서 융자를 받고
payment를 일년에 단 한번만 하는 system에 매우 만족하고 특권으로 생각하고 있습니다.
매월 payment를 하는 방법과 비교해서 훨씬 많은 이자를 지불해야 한다는 생각도 없이 말입니다.
제가 South Carolina의 농부들중에 처음으로 매월payment 방법을 고집한 사람으로 알려져 있습니다

[시골농부]

믿기 어렵지만, 이게 사실입니다.

더 재미있는 일은
이곳에서 백인들에게 오랜세월동안 인종차별을 받아온 흑인들은
우리같은 동양인들에게 같은 방법으로 인종차별을 눈에 보이게 한다는 것입니다.
한번은 식당엘 갔었는데, waiteress가 내가 앉아 있는 table에 오질 않는 것입니다.
그냥 약 15분정도 기다리다가 조용히 그 식당을 빠져 나온 경험이 있습니다.

이곳 bible belt지역에 사는 사람들 중에는
백인만 fundamentalism에 빠져 있는 것이 아니라
모든 사람들이 거의 같은 생각을 가지고 있습니다.

하기에 우리들 미주 한인들도
상당히 많은 분들이 크리스챤 근본주의에 쇄뇌되어 있는 분들이 많지요...
좋은 글 감사합니다.

[워릿이즈]

사실 인종 차별이 없는 나라 지역이 이세상 에 어디 있겠습니까? 하다 못해 대한민국서 귀농을 하는 분들 한테도
텃세를 부리고 영남이니 호남이니 지역 감정... 학교 왕따 지연, 혈연, 학연 등등 그래도 미국은 "법" 이란 제도 아래
그것을 억제 하려는 모습이 라도 있는겁니다. 60년대 린던 존슨 대통이 이룩한 kkk 없애기 가 30년이 지나서야 완전히
해체 되였듯 세월이 약이 겟지요. 인종 차별에 대해서 제가 보는 미국은 70년대 에 비하면 엄청나게 변했습니다. 현제
자라고 있는 아이들 세대는 인종 차별이 거의 다 없어졌다 봅니다. 얼마전 어느분 딸의 이름을 도로명 으로 해주는 나라
역시 미국 이란걸 잊지 마시기 바람니다.

[제주아톰]

물론 워릿이즈님이나 저처럼 부모님 따라 오래 전에 이민 온 사람들은 미국의 인종차별이 그동안 얼마나 개선 되었는지는 잘 압니다. 위의 글의 요지는, 그럼에도 불구하고 바이블 벨트에 사는 어떤 고정관념에 계속 묶여있는 농촌의 백인층은 세상이 바뀌어도 그리고 자신들이 무지해서 많은 불이익을 받고 살아도, 누대에 걸쳐 쇠뇌된 고정관념(예를들면, 신이 백인을 다른 인종에 비해 우월하게 만들었다는 등의)에서 전혀 벗어나지 못한다는 사실이라는 겁니다. 그래서 이런 상황을 잘 알고 있어야 미국을 총체적으로 이해하는데 도움이 된다는 것인데, 저는 '지피지기'라는 관점에서 기억해 둘 필요가 있다고 여깁니다.

[워릿이즈]

아 네... 잘 알고 있습니다. 하지만 저는 또 다른 관점에서 도 보실수 있다 라는 주장을 하는거죠. 몇백년을 지나온
전통이 하루아침에 변할수 없습니다. 이런 문제들은 세월이 약이라 보는데 중요 한것은 나라의 법제도가 얼마나
잘 지켜지냐 인데 제가 볼떈 미국의 법은 어떤 다른 나라에 비하여 젤 공평하다 봅니다. 물론 여기저기 구멍난
데도 있지만 아직은 최고의 제도라 봅니다.

[분도]

NJ.NY의 대도시들에서는 인종차별이 미미합니다,
10 여년전,
테네시주 어느 촌구석의 다이너,
서로 주문을 안 받으려고 해요,
그때, 옆에 있던 백인이 제게,
여기는 중국말 할 줄 아는 사람이 없어서 주문을 못 받는데요,
나도 중국말 할 줄 모르고,
맨하탄 스타일 영어 조금할 줄 아니까,
메뉴를 달라고해서는 그 집에서 제일 비싼 아침 메뉴 여러개를 시켰어요,
좌.우로 보니,
커피 한잔시켜놓고 여자애들과 노닥거리고 있는 배불뚝이 중년들,
제일 막내가 제 주문을 받고난 후 나온 음식들을 먹으라고 나눠줬어요,
자기들끼리 눈치를 보면서 안먹더라고요,
저는 맛있게 잘 먹고요,
옆에서 깐죽거린 녀석에게 정중하게 선물도 줬어요.

[분도]

얘기하다가 커피잔을 쳐서,
그 녀석에게 뜨거운 커피 세례를,
좋아질려고 했던 분위기는 삽시간에 얼어붙고 험악해졌어요,
버버거리는 영어로 정중하게 미안하다 하고요,
혹시 있을지 모를 치료비와 세탁이 불가능하면 새옷 구입비등등의 영수증을 이 주소로 보내주면 가능한한 최대한 빨리 은행수표를 보내주겠다해서 달래놓고요,
음식값내고요,
주문을 받아 준 제일 어린 웨이츄레스(고딩이 주말 파트타임 나온듯)에게 $ 20 팁을 줬어요,다른 웨이츄레스들 배 아프라고요,
음식값은 맨하탄의 1/3값,
그 때 그 주소는,
뉴욕시의 촌구석인 스테이튼 아일랜드에 있던 어떤 장의사 주소와 전번였네요.

[워릿이즈]

ㅎㅎ 장의사 주소... 전 자라면서 학교서도 인종 차별 같은것 못 느낀게... 까불면 막 두둘겨 팻으니 까요. ㅎㅎ

[분도]

지인 아들이 학교다닐때 시비를 걸면,
싸움 제일 잘하는 애나 덩치가 제일 큰 애들을 돌려차기 힌방에 끝을 본답니다,
한번은 맞은 애 부모가 고소를 했는데,
판사가 맞은애한테 저 작은애한테 맞었냐고 물어봐서 그렇다니까,
껄껄 웃더래요,
현재는 경찰입니다.

[워릿이즈]

예 저도 학교에서 복도 지나가면 다 비켜 주었습니다. 저런 비슷한 일이 있은후로... 다만 전 제가 때려준
아이들이 다 퇴학 당했지요. 워낙 나쁜놈 들이라 자동적 으로 그쪽 아이들 폴트. 한놈은 병원 실려
갔었는데도 퇴학. ㅎㅎ

[워릿이즈]

샌프 에서 좀 멀리 떨어져 제가 살고있는 시골 이곳... 저희 아이들 학교 다닐때 한국인 한생 한명도 없었습니다 (잠깐 익스체인지 학생으로 한국서 온것 빼놓고) 그래도 학생회장에 출마를 했는데도 아이들이 뽑아 주더 군요. 고등 학생회장 선거운동 치열 합니다. 만약 인종 차별 관점 으로 봤다면 저의 아이들은 그자리를 할수가 없었지만... 그런걸 초월 하는 나라 가 미국 입니다.

[워릿이즈]

저한텐 이런 일도 있었습니다 2005년 리치몬드 버지니아 로 출장을 갔었는데 회사가 리치몬드에서 약 15분 정도 떨어진
숲이 무성한 곳 이였습니다. 도착 담날 회사를 가서 있는데 3층에 일한다는 사람 (일하는 사람들이 다 백인들) 이 와서 무척 반가운듯 인사를 하며 켈리포냐서 아시아인 이 온단 소리 듣고 인사 하러 내려 왔다고. 그사람 왈 아시안을 첨 보는 거라 하더군요. 영화나 미디아 인터넷을 통해서는 봤지만 펄슨 투 펄슨은 처음. ㅎㅎ 황당 했죠. 그러나 그 사람 그리고 거기서 있던 사람들이 무척 잘 해 주었습니다. 어떤 사람은 호텔밥 먹지 말고 자기집에 와서 자기가 만든 술도 마시고 놀자고 인바이트를 한적도 있었습니다.

[제주아톰]

미국의 양쪽 해안지역에 사는 미국인들은 가장 진보적인 성향을 가지고 있습니다. 게다가 캘리포니아의 샌프란시스코를 포함한 Bay Area는 그 중에서도 가장 진보적인 곳이니, 워릿이즈님이 말씀하신 것이 당연합니다만, 바이블 벨트지역에서만 누대로 살고있는 백인들의 세상이 변해도 변치않는 고정관념이 문제입니다.^^

[워릿이즈]

희망 사항입니다만 앞으로 점점 그들도 깨우치게 되리라 믿고 싶습니다. 사실 해안가라도... 대도시
빼놓은 케롤라이나, 조지아 버지니아 하다 못해 플로리다 도 진보적이진 않쵸. 리치몬드 같은 큰 도시를
옆에두고 사는 사람이 아시아 인을 첨 봤다는 게 첨엔 믿겨지지 않더니 몇달 그곳에 있다 보니 아 그럴
수도 있겠구나 를 느꼈씁니다.

[워릿이즈]

마지막 으로 트럼프 대통령 된것... 민주당 8년 그전에 공화당 8년 또 그전엔 민주당 8년... 골고루 잘 하고
있는것 같아 트럼프 지지자는 아니지만 그리큰 문제는 아니라 봅니다. 하지만 하도 이상한 성격 소유자라
4년후 (3년 조금 넘은) 이사람이 다시 될지는 궁금 합니다. 아 그리고 우리가 맥시코인들 멕짱 이라 부르는것
필리핀 사람들 빨래비누 라 부르는것 생각 해볼 문제고요. 한국서 인종차별 당하는 외국인 노동자들 생각도
해보면 미국의 문제점도 이해가 되리라 봅니다.

[워릿이즈]

헉 제가 미국 촌넘인줄 알았는데 여기 고참님이 이미 계시네유~^^
엄지 올려 주셔서 감사 합니다.

[us123]

공감하는 글이네요. 여기 시골 백인교회가보면, 백인들만 있어요 ... 끼리끼리 모이는 거죠. 대학생까진 그래도 좀 열린 구석이 있지요 ...나는 시골에 애들이 고등만 졸업하면 결혼도 하고 ( 어린나이에 애키울 능력이 되나? 이렇게 생각했었는데), 어떤 애들은 임신도 하고 ... 시골에 젊은 애들이 목표가 없고, 문화도 없고 ... 좀 생각있는 애들은 큰 도시로도 가고 ... 이젠 이해를 해요 ... 그냥 먹고 사는 거예요 ... 어떤애들은 현실적으로 열심히, 또 어떤애들은 하루 하루 게으르게 , 술도 먹고 팟도 먹고 ... 다른 거에 관심없어요 ... 아시안, 그냥 나이스하게 인사만 했지? 그 다음엔 관심없어요 ...알고 싶지 않아요 ...

[us123]

문화고 학문이고, 다른나라는 뭐가 다른지? 관심없어요 ... 다 그런건 아니고, 시골도 여러계층이 있겠지만 전체적인 흐름 인듯 ... 본문 글중 백인 우월주의란게, 게으르고, 남에 대해 알고 싶지 않고, 자기것이 제일 인줄 알고, 여행가봐야 동네 부근 유원지, 캠핑, 낚시나 하고 즐기고, 먹고 싸고, 그러고 사는거예요 ... 어찌보면 현실적으로도 보이고요